LRT Traffic Issues at 51 Ave
Though the new extension of the South LRT has otherwise gotten off to a smooth start, there were significant problems at 51 Ave yesterday and again today. I’ve been in touch with the senior staff at the Transportation Department and they are keeping us apprised of their work and I visited the intersection twice during evening rush hour yesterday. I spoke to one bus driver who was delayed 21 minutes turning from westbound to southbound.
I received the following update from the Manager of Transportation Operations this afternoon which outlines significant changes that changes are being implemented and the timelines:
– signal phase structure is being modified – rather than separate eastbound and westbound phases, the east/west movements will occur at the same time, and then in turn east/west left turns will occur at the same time
– this change in phase structure will allow a reduction in the overall signal cycle from over 3 minutes to less than 2 minutes due to combining movements on the two pedestrian crossings, in combination with other signal phase duration changes
– in combination, these changes will minimize the risk of a signal phase being skipped more than once, however additional work needs to be done to further optimize the operation
– we are working with LRT to see if we can have a more regularized arrival pattern at the intersection – the current LRT train operation is highly random which affects phase skipping
– with the replacement of the central control computer later this summer, additional flexibility will be provided through the ability to more directly intervene in signal timings in the field
Instructions have been sent to EPCOR regarding the required changes with direction to implement as quickly as possible – worst case scenario will be some time tomorrow, but we will keep you posted once we have more information.
We did observe delays of up to 15 minutes in worst case for eastbound and also observed pedestrians crossing 111 St without waiting for the signals, both factors which are not acceptable and risky.
I can assure all those who have been impacted by this problem that resolving this is a top priority.
What is the city doing with a signal cycle length over two minutes anyway? Ought to be a law.
Also sounds like the controller computer’s just too dumb to find the necessary green time elsewhere in the cycle after skipping the phase.
Maybe the attention being paid to 51st ave will also bring attention back to the utter mess that is Belgravia since the LRT went in? There’s over 50 blocks here that only has 2 exits to the rest of the city… 76 ave, and going up to University Ave. Come take a drive down here from 4.30 till 6. Thanks to the ridiculousness of the LRT line, it’s a parking lot. If you’re lucky, you move 4 car lengths ahead every red light.
“the current LRT train operation is highly random which affects phase skipping”
WHAT?! I thought the trains had set schedules!
And the Gong Show that is Belgravia between 4:30 and 6pm has to be fixed too! I got trapped in there for 25 minutes one night. The green phase to the light was too short, favouring 114 Street, when there was ample time to allow folks to cross before the trains showed up. My call to 3-1-1 and the traffic guy who called back was futile. City traffic think its ok to hold up folks for long waits in order to favour the heavier travelled 114 St. corridor.
Don, are you honestly going to tell us that this will not get 10 times worse with low floor LRT, travelling in the middle of the road? This hubbub is from one intersection alone. Theoretically, with your low floor plan, we could create this problem across the city.
Can we not learn from the Canada Line? Translink has built 19.2 Km of high efficiency transit line that never interacts with traffic. It moves at 80 Km/h. It is wholly above or below ground. It serves dense and non-dense communities. Its being used by double the number of riders originally anticipated. Astonishingly, they built it for $2.05 Billion. You, however, want a streetcar from WEM to Mill Woods, the cost of which is estimated at $3.2 Billion?
There’s something not right here. How can anyone not see that? No doubt you’ll stick to your guns and proclaim that low floor streetcars are the only viable option for Edmonton.
Is there a reason why the LRT can’t stop and wait it’s turn at the red light? That is how they do it in Calgary – the LRT does not have priority – signal lights run normally. The difference there is no traffic for the LRT so once the light goes green, it goes as opposed to cars that may not make it through. I’ve ridden the C-Train lots – the most a train waits is a few minutes at a light. Still very fast.
“Is there a reason why the LRT can’t stop and wait it’s turn at the red light?”
Several:
-It can’t start and stop on a dime
-It carries many more people than the cars that are mildly inconvenienced
-The cars aren’t actually inconvenienced at all if done properly, since all that should change is when the northbound/southbound green comes on in the cycle
-Adding random red lights is terrible for schedule adherence
-Despite what you say, an unnecessary few minutes for several hundred people is a HUGE deal, and riding the CTrain into downtown from the northwest is incredibly painful because of signal choices
I am no expert but what I am guessing is that the problem is that the lights for cars turn green along the train track whenever the train comes by and the gates drop. the lights going against the track go red. then the lights along the track stay green for x minutes for the vehicle traffic to move. the train finishes passing after a few seconds but the lights along the track stay green for the cars. by the time the light switches against the track a new train arrives and the cycle starts all over.
N-S train and cars
E-W cars
N-S train and cars
that’s the idea, and it works great off peak but it does not work for rush hour due to trains coming every 5 minutes instead of every 15. the cycle should be more intelligent and able to start where it left off. if the N-S just got a signal for 3 minutes, when the train comes by again it should keep both lights red till the train passes then give the signal to the e-w cars
N-S train and cars
E-W cars get missed due to 2nd train
N-S train but cars get nothing for the ten seconds it takes for the train to pass
E-W cars
N-S train and cars.
this could be done with a programmable logic controller. I’m not sure what the cities traffic light controllers are capable of, but I don’t see why this sort of programming would not be feasible.
I’m certain such a setup would work, and this glitch will likely be fixed and forgotten about long before they even start construction of the WEM line.
hopefully the city will learn what traffic light system other cities that use a street car style system have in place and copy it. preferably with some simple research, a few phone calls, and not with an expensive “study”. perhaps they already have. I’m just throwing this out there.
The issue is that the traffic lights along the LRT reset to the start of a fixed sequence every time the LRT passes. As other comments pointed out, the traffic light controllers should resume the sequence where they left off before the LRT passed through the intersection. Another option would be for the controller to maintain a tally of allocation of traffic light time for each step of the sequence and allocate time for each light sequence step to cater to demand or to meet pre-programmed splits for each direction.
If this behaviour is a limitation of the traffic light controllers then we must have seriously cheap traffic light hardware. The other possibility is that this is just plain lazy programming.
Regardless of the source of this problem, the traffic light behaviour is bad for both the LRT and other users crossing these intersections. The LRT gets a bad name because it is unfairly blamed for poor traffic light controller behaviour and other users are inconvenienced because of unnecessary and unfair waits at these intersections.
As for the bad traffic backed up on 76 Avenue during evening rush hours, I’m quite sure that most of the cars backed up along 76 Avenue are not actually from the neighbourhood. I believe most of these folks are actually attempting to shortcut through Belgravia when University Avenue is backed up beyond Saskatchewan Drive. I suspect that increasing allocated time for 76 Avenue exits toward 114 Street will only encourage more shortcutting through the neighbourhood.
That intersection has always been bad for buses from WB to SB and it made me miss my connection by just one or two light changes when I was at the University. How about having the #6 turn SB right before the mall, and having it go around to the whitemud offramp and back north to the bus station?
The problems with these lights make me seriously question the wisdom of the planned grade crossings on the NAIT line, particularly at Princes Elisabeth and 106, where the LRT will block both of the streets each time it crosses. That crossing was added when the NAIT station was moved towards the airport lands, but the revised location is only a marginal improvement for NAIT riders, so unlike at 51ave the potential traffic problems will have only limited public transit benefit
Although I leave near, not in, Belgravia, I agree that improving the light timing in the evening rush hour will only encourage more shortcutting. Motorists behave much like ants; if a way is blocked they’ll try another way, even if it’s no better or is even worse. Some shortcutters will eventually realize they’re not saving any time, and the congestion will balance itself out. It’s never going to be fast through there, people. If you want speed, get on the LRT.
I have waited a minimum of twenty minutes trying to cross over 111 st going east to west. The light does not alternate to give people crossing from the east side of 111st without waiting several light changes before being given a short green light phase.I do everything I can to avoid going near 111 st. I do not have 20 minutes to wait at a light ever. I am really not impressed with the slow progress in resolving this is issue.